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Rotten Circuits
October 27th, 2009
12:44 pm

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Nick Griffin Question Time
So, I watched the show yesterday, and the thing that's been running through my head the most since then is:

"Indiginous English? What the hell are you smoking?!"

The audience were with me, too - the reaction was overwhelmingly negative and derisory. And it's pretty obvious why.

There are no "indiginous English" people. The Celts, from Southern France, trace back to Africa like everybody else. Every other country in Great Britain except England can claim some kinship to the Celts, as they were pushed out and enslaved by the Romans. The decendents of the Romans were slaughtered by the Angles and Saxons (mostly from South Germany), who created what became England on their twice-conquered land. They were mixed with Viking raiders. In turn, they were conquered by the French. Since then, the royal line has been mixed with others from all over Europe, and occasionally further afield, and sent out their mixed-blood subjects to all corners of the globe, bringing back slaves, subjects and employees from the lands that they in turn conquered. These people gained their freedoms and fortunes, and became accepted into Great Britain (an economic union, created pretty much under duress, with the Celtic countries,) too.

That's a massively shortened version of our cultural and ethenic history, and still any fool can see that there's no room for any kind of person "native" to Britain.

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From:sorceror
Date:October 27th, 2009 05:08 pm (UTC)
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From:wererogue
Date:October 27th, 2009 05:38 pm (UTC)
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Looks fun!
From:imortal_fae
Date:October 27th, 2009 05:32 pm (UTC)
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I would like to be suprised if anyone believed him, but having had many discussions with various UK nationalists (either Welsh,Scott or English) I can safely say that there really are some fools out there with major issues.

Our nation has had some fantastic influxes of ideas and peoples,but I guess its hard for some people to except that..And more importantly except that not every "wave of collanisation" was a bloody pogrom of the previous peoples (had many discussions with some very bigoted people in aber about that point, they could not step away from the "slaughter and settle" model of colonising).

I am happy to be descended from the assorted peoples who came here, be they settler or invader.
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From:wererogue
Date:October 27th, 2009 05:56 pm (UTC)
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Agreed entirely. Some people came before me, and yet I am still me :V
From:imortal_fae
Date:October 27th, 2009 05:42 pm (UTC)
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what I find interesting at the moment is the shift away from the old "traditional" viewpoint of waves of settlers towards one focused on the influx of ideas and fashions.
For so long people often assumed that each wave of settlers killed off the previous "natives" when there is little evidence to support that. And a whole lot more to support the idea that we had a melting pot of assimilation that tended to change fashions rather than people.

As an example:
In 1000 years if people looked at the physical remains of us, they could find loads of us with lets say BMWs. An obvious German item...But that does not mean we were german.
Likewise for certain grave goods in ancient times, people readily accepted new ideas if they worked (beakers and urns, swords ect..)
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From:bernthewitch
Date:October 27th, 2009 07:22 pm (UTC)
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Agreed.

Besides, who in the world says that a land mass is "exclusively" for one type of person, be it culture, creed or colour? I assume this is his argument, I didn't see it due to being sans satellite TV and in a sucky third world internet globule.
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From:stu_the_elder
Date:October 28th, 2009 01:15 am (UTC)
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Well I personally am deeply offended, Ian! I didn't go back in time and kill off a lot of people who might be my ancestors just so I could be called a non-indigenous Englishman!

Oh, shit, parad..

*BLOIP!*

..ox.. en. Oxen. Why am I typing about oxen? Hmm, on with stuff.
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From:chalicier
Date:October 30th, 2009 01:15 pm (UTC)
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"In turn, they were conquered by the French."
Not even the French - the Normans were settled Vikings that had previously conquered Normandy ("North-man", see?) the same way Harald Hardrada conquered Anglia. The actual Gallic "French" had been pushed practically to the Mediterranean by the (Viking) Normans and (German/Celtic) Belgae. In a way the Norman Conquest was a completion of a process that had begun 3 centuries earlier with the first full Norwegian invasions of Northern England and Scotland.

But yes, none of this detracts from your point one bit. I extend this to the Welsh, too - given the multiple waves of emigrations and immigrations to and from Wales in the last 300 years alone, virtually none of the "Welsh" people that clamour so loudly for a "Welsh Wales" are actually Welsh Celts. And the really sad bit is, neither Plaid Cymru nor the BNP/EDP/UKIP/etc axis seem to have figured out that this is a GOOD THING.

The truly absurd thing is that Great Britain's recent history (let's say the 17-19th centuries) is one giant lesson in how integration of different cultures and peoples can produce incredible achievements and results; and yet these morons simply ignore it, probably because they don't seem to know any history beyond WW2.
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